Emmanuelle Payet – This Island Within Herself

juin 5, 2024

Born on April 14 1986, in the island of La Réunion, World University champion, European U23 runner-up and Lucie Décosse’s replacement at the Beijing Olympics, the U63kg was one of the many comets of French judo. For three years, which spanned from the Rotterdam World Championships in 2009 to the London Olympics in 2012, I followed her path for the French bimonthly magazine L’Esprit du judo as part of a series called the Judo Academy. There, she rubbed shoulders with seven other French internationals at the age when chrysalises become butterflies – Lucile Duport, Morgane Ribout, Audrey Tcheuméo, Florent Urani, Ugo Legrand, Axel Clerget and Nicolas Brisson. Eighteen individual and collective milestones in three years which, in her case, turned into a long chronicle of an early retirement. Twelve years later, it’s time to hear from her again. – JudoAKD#002.

A French version of this interview is available here.

*Early 2024 on the tatami of MaxOut Sports in Bedford Heights, Ohio*
*©Archives Emmanuelle Payet/JudoAKD*

You ended your individual career at the age of 25, your body worn down by injuries. Where do you stand physically, for a start?

I left INSEP [French National Institute for Sport, Expertise and Performance] in September 2011 after a long period of personal reflection. And this even though I was offered another year of training despite my years of injuries and under-performance. It’s true that I stopped my career prematurely. To be honest, after my first major ankle surgery in 2009, I was never the same person again. My rehabilitation lasted a year, with its share of unforeseen events along the way. By the time I got back on the mat, I’d lost the fire that had always driven me when I fought. I didn’t feel like it anymore, I didn’t understand the meaning of what I was doing. After that, one injury followed another. Today I’m still physically active, but to some degree I feel that my body is really weakened by all those years of intense practice. So, I’m trying not to get too carried away to avoid further surgery.

With hindsight, how do you analyze this wear and tear?

I now understand the adage: “When the head doesn’t want to, the body follows”. My body was trying to tell me it was time to move on and to focus on something else.

What was this “something else”?

During the 2010/2011 season, when I was spending more time in rehabilitation than on the mat, I had time to think about my project of career change. I was able to take a skills assessment at INSEP. The outcome showed that I could thrive in the social professions. So, without a moment’s hesitation, off I went!

How did it all come about?

When I left INSEP, after passing the entrance test, I joined a social worker school at the CRAMIF (Caisse régionale de l’Assurance maladie Ile-de-France, the regional health insurance fund in my area). The plan was simple: three years of school and a diploma in social work. I was very lucky, as I had a permanent contract with the Levallois Sporting Club. This enabled me to qualify for unemployment benefit for three years. Three years during which I could devote myself entirely to my schooling, without worrying about paying my bills or finding a job outside school to support myself. But those three years were not all plain sailing…

Why is that?

You know, it’s not so easy to go back to school after so many years. But I gritted my teeth and didn’t give up. If top-level sport has taught me anything, it’s that when you work hard and discipline yourself, the results are there to see! As former top-level athletes, our mentality is a real strength in everyday life. We put our hearts into what we do, and we don’t give up even when it’s hard. This quality is probably not available to everyone.

So, you ended up getting that diploma…

Exactly. I officially became a social worker in 2014. I jumped up and down, cried and said “thank you, Life”! Behind the scenes, my former internship site, the Val-de-Marne Departmental Council, contacted me the day after the results to ask me if I wanted to work for them. I had worked there for six years. And I could have worked there for even longer if chance hadn’t put someone in my path…

And who was that?

In 2018, I meet an American in Paris. He works in the nuclear industry and often gives conferences in Europe. A long-distance relationship begins. It carries on like this for three years, until our wedding and my departure for the United States in 2021. My partner has three daughters, a thirteen-years-old and twelve-years-old twins, with whom I’m very close, and that’s great. So, it’s off to a new adventure, a new challenge, a move to another country, a different culture and language. Starting all over again. Make new friends. Finding a job… That’s what being a former top-level sportswoman is all about! Never be afraid to take risks. Because we know deep down that it can lead to something extraordinary. In fact, I’m not sure I’d have taken as many risks if I hadn’t had this career path. To be honest, I think I would have just spent my whole life on Reunion Island, with my family and in the sun. And that would have been enough to keep me happy.

How quickly did you fit in?

There’s so much to say since I moved to the States! First, I met a French community in Cleveland that helped me settle in and adapt. Since then, I’ve been lucky enough to be able to travel a lot, both in the U.S. and abroad. Mind you, I’ve even set myself the goal to visit all fifty American states…

How far are you now?

I’m now up to a dozen in three years. From the top of my head: Ohio, then, but also West Virginia, Virginia, Pennsylvania, Florida, North Carolina, Indiana, South Carolina, Nevada, Arizona, Wisconsin, New York State, Maryland… As a good island girl who enjoys the sun, I confess to having a real soft spot for Florida. I’ve visited Miami, but also islands like Marco Island and Key West.

*April 2023 getaway at Valley of Fire State Park, Nevada, on the borders of Las Vegas, Lake Mead and the Mojave Desert*
*©Archives Emmanuelle Payet/JudoAKD*

And outside the United States?

I travel regularly in Europe. As I manage some administrative tasks for my husband’s company on a part-time basis, I sometimes join him on his travels to conferences. As far as the rest of the world is concerned, traveling internationally for judo competitions already allowed me to see quite a few countries, and since then I’ve also been to Brazil, Aruba, Guadeloupe, Canada, Sweden, Switzerland, Spain…

How did your job go?

I wasn’t allowed to work in the United States for a year, while waiting for my green card. Then I worked for six months for a company that builds… tractors!

How unusual!

I was the only chick. On the first day, I think my colleagues wondered if I’d lost my way… It was very physical. You had to lift a lot of heavy things, and use different tools like the drill, the hammer, polishing tools, and so on. After a month and a half, several colleagues came up to me to say they were impressed and that I was doing a good job. It’s a very masculine world, so I was really happy to gain their trust and recognition.

Are you still working there?

No, because I then seized a great job opportunity: to be a manager for a French company based in Cleveland, Ohio, a position I am still holding.

On the sports front, have you managed to stay in shape?

After I arrived in the United States, I tried out several sports, including Brazilian jujitsu. At the end of my second class, the teacher made a point of chatting with me. It was a small club. He told me that after Covid-19, he’d lost quite a few members, and that the guys I was beating with chokes, armlocks and immobilizations were doing him a disservice from his point of view, because their egos were taking a hit. He was really afraid they’d leave too… I asked him what exactly he wanted me to do, because I didn’t really understand the point of this discussion… I’m a cool chick. I don’t go to fighting classes to beat people up. The problem here is guys who try to deal with their strength, and hurt… Well no, sorry, I won’t let you guys do that [Laughs]. Anyway, I didn’t tell him like that of course, I’m respectful… I just stopped.

You said you’d tried other sports too?

I actually did kickboxing for a year, which I loved, as well as soccer as a hobby. I’ve had to put those sports on hold for a while, since I’ve been teaching judo at the Chu To Bu Brasa on the Avon side of Cleveland. I follow the youngsters in competition at national level. All this takes up a lot of my time.

*Early 2024, session at Chu To Bu Brasa in Avon, Ohio*
*©All rights reserved/JudoAKD*

What’s your view of US judo, since you’re now involved in it?

There’s so much to do in the United States as far as judo is concerned. It’s still not very popular here, despite champions like Ronda Rousey and Kayla Harrison. The system isn’t really developed, the infrastructures have yet to be built, the support has yet to be put in place, and so on. I do what I can with what I’ve got, without pressure. We’ve got a group of girls with potential, and our sights are set on the 2028 Olympics in Los Angeles. We’ll see [Smiles].

Do you have any ambitions to play a role there?

Yes, we’ve been thinking about 2028 here for a while [Smiles]. As I said, I coach youngsters and I have some really talented girls. They’re training hard and, if they keep up this pace and avoid injury, they could eventually claim a place at the Olympics in 2028, when they’ll be in their twenties. As the host country, we wouldn’t have to go looking for a World Ranking List qualification. This would also relieve the athlete of the stress of qualifying and allow them to focus on what’s most important: working to perform. I’ve built up a relationship of trust with some of the youngsters. I don’t know what tomorrow will bring, or what opportunities will present themselves to me in judo or elsewhere, but if one or two of my athletes has a chance, near or far, I’ll do my utmost to support them and be there right to the end, yes.

And how do your American students see you?

For them, I’m The Frenchy, the Lucie Décosse’ substitute at the Beijing Olympics. Qualifying for the Olympics here makes an impression on people. Athletes are handeled with the same respect as the military, there’s a real gratitude towards them in society and I must admit it’s heartwarming to see that. People here have a real capacity to be genuinely happy for you. There’s a culture of encouragement that I really like. Basically, I have opportunities here that I would never have had in France, clearly. Here, people trust you even if you don’t have any real qualifications in certain fields. That’s what the American dream is all about. Anything is possible, and I love that phrase: telling yourself that yes, “anything is possible”. After that, you must remember that in France, a judoka on the French team has unheard-of comforts: they pay for your judogis, your planes, your hotels, and abroad you even have a per diem to spend. Here, everyone goes out of their own pocket. It’s a completely different relationship.

February 2024 in Homestead, Florida, not far from the Everglades
@Archives Emmanuelle Payet/JudoAKD

You’ve always been very attached to your native island of La Réunion. How do you cope with being so far away these days? I guess it’s sometimes a dilemma between going back to metropolitan France and going back to the island…

Now that I live in the United States, I try to get back to La Réunion once a year. When I lived in France, I went back maybe twice a year – the difference is that it takes me three days to get to the island now [Laughs]. My parents and sisters came to see me, and they’ll probably be back this year too. The United States is so big. There are so many cool things for them to do here, it’s cool to have a pied-a-terre. So, it’s not as complicated as I thought it would be. Phew!

Looking back, what are you most proud of?

My greatest pride remains representing my country around the world. To have been part of the French Olympic team for Beijing as a substitute behind a great champion like Lucie Décosse. And to have been ranked 5th in the world.

What are your regrets?

I have no regrets. I had some unforgettable moments. Intense moments. I’ve also had difficult moments, but all together, they have contributed to making me the person I am today. I think everything that’s happened in my life was meant to happen, period. I’m not someone who lives with “what ifs”. I like to look at the positive side of things. Why torture yourself with something you can’t change? That’s really wanting to hurt yourself [Smiles]. Life is short and I only want what’s best!

What lessons have you learned from your years as a competitor? How do they influence your daily life today?

Top-level sport has taught me so much. The mental side, discipline in everything I do, respect… Thanks to top-level sport, I’ve made choices I’d never have made otherwise, that’s for sure. When I was younger, I was afraid of everything: traveling, talking to strangers… All that was a long time ago. I’ve changed so much for the better through this experience… I’m not afraid of new challenges. I’m a hard worker. All these qualities make you valuable on the job market. You have to be aware of that [Smiles].

I remember we once talked about the fact that you’d been featured at a very young age in L’Esprit du judo, and that this may have put extra pressure on you at an age when you were still growing. Looking back, how do you view the media coverage of judo in general? What kind of advice would you give to the current generation? “Let’s go because it goes by fast” or “save yourself”?

I think judo is getting more and more media coverage, and it’s great for our athletes to be put forward and congratulated on their performance. I would say to the new generation of judokas to give it their all and live the experience to the full, but above all not to forget that there’s more to life than performance and judo. In life, there’s life too.

You’ve probably heard about Patrick Roux’s 2023 book on violences in judo. A lot of what he writes about goes back to the years when you were an athlete yourself. How did you get through those years?

As far as I’m concerned, I don’t remember being the victim of any particular physical violence. I know that other people may have had different experiences, and I’m sorry about that. What I can say is that sometimes I learned things a bit the hard way, that’s true… If you don’t mind me saying so, there’s just one little thing I’d like to mention in relation to this…

Yes…

It’s about the weight of words. I’ve got a hypersensitive personality and I remember back in the day, sometimes the way I was addressed wasn’t right. Trying to prick your ego and create a reaction isn’t something that works with me or people with similar personalities. I don’t think this was the result of bad intentions on the part of certain coaches. Unfortunately, sometimes it was just a pattern they reproduced, since that’s how they learned themselves. But let me reassure you, they’re not all like that, and fortunately so. Looking back, I’m convinced that every athlete is different. But I think that the importance of the coach/athlete relationship has been too often neglected in the past. For me, having a relationship of respect and trust with your athlete is essential. In fact, I achieved my best results, when I had a coach who listened, who was attentive and who tried to do things at my pace, without rushing me.

Looking back, how do you view the period of mourning that almost all top-level athletes seem to go through when they quit their competition years?

It’s normal to go through this phase after a top-level career. Especially when you’ve invested so much time and energy and your life has revolved around sport. I think it affects all top-level athletes, at every level. Only the intensity varies, perhaps.

What helped you through this period of transition? You mentioned that you were close to the other Réunionese members of the French team at the time. Were they a refuge for you?

I have the impression that we don’t talk enough about this transition period. Maybe out of modesty, I don’t know. It’s a big upheaval that you have to face, because you have to totally rethink your life. “What am I going to do now?” is the key question. As far as I’m concerned, I’ve been lucky enough to be able to count on my family and friends. And the great thing is that, once you’ve got over that period of mourning, it’s like rediscovering life – the real thing!

And what does real life mean to you?

Now I’m allowed to party as much as I want without it affecting my performance. So long dieting! I can dance the night away without thinking about how tired I’m going to be for training and, incidentally, how I’m going to risk injury… I can take time for myself, cook, try out a new sporting activity and – let’s say it loud! – finally be free from the stress of performance!

Video reunion on a Saturday in January 2024
@Archives Anthony Diao/JudoAKD

Have you kept in touch with athletes from your time? With coaches?

No one has come to visit me in Cleveland yet, but we’ve come up with ideas for a road trip with friends like Laëtitia Payet and Maëlle Di Cintio, who are also very busy. I still have close friends with whom I was at INSEP. I see them regularly as soon as I get back to Paris or, I meet some in La Réunion, like Matthieu Dafreville. Going to La Réunion means having to go through Paris, and that’s great. With the others, the relationship is more distant since we don’t live next door, but we keep in touch through social networks. With my friends at INSEP, I have strong bonds built up through years of training, travel and competitions. We’ve shared moments together that we’ll never forget: our trials and tribulations, our medals, our post-competition parties, our stories from abroad… I’ve also kept in touch with some of my coaches on the networks. I’d love to see them again, but it’s true that with time and distance, that’s mostly wishful thinking.

What about foreign athletes you’ve met on the tour?

Nada, or just by chance on the edge of the tatami at local competitions. I’ve bumped into Nyam-Ochir Sanjargal from Mongolia, the Americans Jimmy Pedro and Travis Stevens, a few Japanese, Armenian and Cuban athletes, Jérémy Le Bris and his wife Sandra Garofalo, who were both at INSEP and have been living in Canada for a few years now… Once again, when I was an athlete, I was quite shy with outsiders. I am an introvert and I didn’t come out of my shell too much, and even less with strangers. I can see that today’s Instagram generation is turning the tables on that, and that’s great. As for the circuit, I disconnected for a year and a half. Today, I like to follow girls like the Canadian Jessica Klimkait or Alina Boehm from Germany. Girls who manage to perform without losing their femininity. I also follow girls like Clarisse Agbegnegnou, the sisters Priscilla and Astrid Gneto. Not only are they French, but they also have incredible judo. And they too are both feminine and classy!

What advice would today’s Manue give to the woman who arrived at INSEP two decades ago?

I have three: be yourself; don’t be afraid to fail; and what should be, will be. You know, when I stopped judo, I had a difficult time. I felt I was only good for judo. I saw life as dark, really. I even thought I wasn’t going to make it in life – and that would have been really sad. Fortunately, that phase didn’t last! I became a social worker, a civil servant in the local civil service, A-category executive. It’s all about believing. So, OK, I’m not a doctor, but I’m proud of how far I’ve come. After devoting so many years to judo, it was far from easy.

And what would today’s Manue say to the woman who donned her very first white belt so long ago?

It was in 1994 at the Judo club municipal de Saint-Denis de La Réunion. I was eight years old, and François Lambert was my teacher. He was a great teacher, admittedly a bit strict, but it was thanks to him that I developed an ironclad competitive mind. I’ll always be grateful to him… To the child I was then, I’d say to do exactly what I’m doing now: give it my all! I was very introverted at that age. I had trouble communicating with others outside my family circle. In class, I was so discreet that no one could hear me. I expressed myself much better through sport at school or in judo. In these two settings, I almost became another person. Someone who gave her guts out and could even raise her voice to motivate her partners. The contrast with my discretion in class was striking. Everyone would say to me: “But you’re so sweet in life in general, and now you’re becoming such a competitor”… Yes, I’d tell eight-year-old Manue to hang on tight, because it’s going to be a bit of a bumpy ride, but all in all, she should have a good time [Smiles]. – Interview by Anthony Diao, Winter 2024.

A French version of this interview is available here.

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