Born on May 20 1989, in the 13th arrondissement of Paris, this journalist with the daily Le Populaire du Centre has lived in Limoges since he was five. Respected for his soul-level coverage of local sport, he has the particularity of consistently highlighting two blind spots in French judo: provinces and disability. With the hindsight afforded by distance in kilometers compared to the legendary centralism of French sport, there’s something intensely martial about his approach to the job. An excellent opportunity to give him the space to tell his story. – JudoAKD#005.
A French version of this interview is available here.
How did you come to cover judo for the regional daily press?
I started in September 2008 as a freelancer in the sports department of Le Populaire du Centre. I was 19 years old. As I recount in Une Flamme pour sortir de l’ombre, the book I co-wrote with Cyril Jonard, which comes out this spring, one of the first events I covered for this Haute-Vienne region’s newspaper was the judo zone championships, an inter-regional qualifying competition for the French championships. I was new to the world of judo, and that was the day I discovered Cyril. Or rather, it was a scene that gave me an idea of the level of determination of this AJL (Alliance Judo Limoges) member.
What happened?
During a fight, Cyril injured himself – a fracture or an open wound, I can’t remember exactly. It was serious enough to require medical attention. But he categorically refused to get off the mat. For him, it was inconceivable to lose or give up, to simply give up. He wanted to « keep going ». He was « not in pain ». He was about to win. This act of bravery astonished and impressed me. For the people at the edge of the mats, it was « normal ». « It’s Cyril Jonard », they simply said… That’s how it all started.
What was your background before that?
When I started reporting for Le Populaire du Centre, I was a student at the IUT Techniques de commercialisation in Limoges. As I was passionate about journalism in general and sports journalism in particular – telling stories about your passion, big deal! – I decided to reorientate myself with the aim of taking the competitive exams that would bring me closer to this profession. So I obtained a Bachelor’s degree in Information and Communication with a journalism option in Bordeaux, followed by a Master’s degree in Political Science in Montpellier. I was then offered a permanent contract at Le Populaire du Centre.
Have you played one or more of the sports you cover?
First of all, I played soccer for several years. Then I took up cycling as a teenager. As a matter of fact, my adventure with Le Populaire du Centre began with articles on cycling. As for judo, to ensure the best possible follow-up, I practiced for a few years, earning a green belt in the process.
How many copies does your newspaper print?
Le Popu has a daily circulation of over twenty thousand, but it was more than double that when I started.
Where did judo fit in when you arrived?
Judo had the place it usually has in the regional daily press. There were two kinds of articles, as there are today: those sent in by the clubs to talk about their local life (members results, black belt announcements, competitions organized by the club, etc.), and those produced by the editorial staff before or after national competitions. It was mostly in fits and starts, even though there were already some good results with the Fikri brothers, Mathieu Thorel and Thierry Fabre.
How did you develop this approach?
When I arrived, I wanted to take charge of this section, with more in-depth monitoring of competitors qualified for the French first division championships, as well as AJL’s team competitions. The decision to focus on judo news came at an opportune moment: in the mid-2010s, a certain Fanny-Estelle Posvite made her debut on the international scene and, in her wake, her AJL club shone in team competitions. What’s more, her teammates also performed well on the national stage. I’m thinking of Audrey Thorel, Véronique Mandeng, Laury Posvite, Ambre Saba, Eloïse Combeau… I should also point out that my successive bosses have given me plenty of scope to cover judo. I’ve been able to write a lot, at times. Perhaps too much? In any case, in my opinion, these results and these achievements deserved to be told.
You’ve written some very powerful articles over the years: Fanny Posvite’s state of mind, coverage of certain European club cups… What’s your Top 3?
It’s hard to come up with a Top 3, especially when it comes to our own work. However, we can distinguish three categories of strong and/or outstanding papers. First, as you said, there’s Fanny Posvite’s confidences. In her early years, Fanny was a shy teenager who confided little. Now, ten years on, she’s a woman who’s suffered many hard knocks – in fact, perhaps a book should be written about her… -, who perfectly embodies the word resilience, and who now speaks from the heart. On several occasions, she has confided at length, in complete transparency, about the complicated periods in her career, in particular when she was not selected for the World championships even though she was among the world’s best, but also about the difficulties inherent in her status as #2 or #3 in her category: lack of consideration, lack of sponsorship, etc. She’s a girl who qualified for the Olympics three times in 2016, 2021 and 2024, but was never able to take part because of very strong national competition from girls like Gévrise Emane in the U70 kg category in 2016, then Audrey Tcheuméo and Madeleine Malonga since she moved up to the U78 kg category at the start of 2019.
What have been your most-read articles?
In terms of number of views, my latest one on Fanny Posvite, still qualified but never selected for the Olympics, had 12,000 views. The record is held by Cyril Jonard on his last World title: 61,000 views. This statistic, huge for a sports article on Le Populaire.fr, was also an indicator for starting the book project. There was a real interest in this eye-catching title: At 46, Cyril Jonard (Alliance Judo Limoges) equals Teddy Riner in winning his tenth World championship title.
You’ve also accompanied AJL on several European Club Cups…
Yes, that’s the second category of articles. These are the stories I call embedded – I learned this word from reading you after our first meeting. These are the stories I was able to bring back from AJL’s European team competitions. In Paris, Samara in Russia or Tbilissi in Georgia. I was at the heart of the team, among them, as if I were one of them. I remember that for Paris and Samara, we had a double-page spread in the newspaper, reporting the competition day by day, hour by hour. I don’t know if many clubs got that kind of local coverage…
You also mentioned a third category…
Yes, because I’m thinking of the portrait pages I’ve produced on the key players in Limousin judo. The idea behind these portraits was not to talk about judokas, but about men and women. The portrait of Patrick Lacombe, « this exceptional builder », who has done so much for regional judo, or of Adil Fikri, after the European medal he won in Georgia, are also pages that I treasure in my memory box.
Former World champion Loïc Pietri once talked in an interview about the Jacobinism of French judo. Is this something you’ve also noticed in the local press?
I think it’s a very nice expression, which is totally true of French judo. Just ask the youngsters at the pôle Espoirs in Limoges: they’re all dreaming of the pôle France to eventually join the Judo Institute, but above all the INSEP. They’ve all been trained to believe that they have to go to Paris to succeed. History shows that it’s difficult to succeed outside the federal bosom, and that all the big clubs are concentrated in the Paris region. Loïc Pietri is right: it’s Paris or die. On the other hand, I’ve appreciated the fact that over the last decade, clubs in the provinces have proved that it’s possible to succeed with girls born and trained locally. In this sense, the AJL story was a beautiful one: with girls born, trained and licensed in Limousin, the club conquered France and then Europe. I’m not sure we’ll be seeing that again any time soon!
How would I define my relationship with Cyril? Outside of writing periods, we see each other several times a year, and it’s always a pleasure. We’re like two kids who’ve never left each other’s side, cracking kid jokes and chatting on a wide range of subjects, as if we saw each other every day. Cyril is an exceptional champion. Above all, he’s a beautiful person, generous, jovial, sunny. So I have a great deal of esteem, admiration and respect for him. To counterbalance all these compliments, I’d also like to point out that he’s a brute [Smiles]. We’ve done several judo sessions together and every time, he’s crushed me without mercy. I don’t know whether he’s measuring his strength or just taking sadistic pleasure in it [Laughs].
What was there to say in this second book that hadn’t been said in the first?
The idea for this second book was born in November 2022, when Cyril became IBSA World champion for the umpteenth time. At the age of 46, he was climbing to the top of the world, whereas a few years earlier, unselected for the Tokyo Paralympics and absent from the para-judo podiums, his career seemed to be in its twilight… But, like his life, he came back from nowhere to go against the odds. After all, when he was born, his parents were promised hell because he was deaf and would go blind. Cyril endured a thousand hardships and overcame hundreds of obstacles. Ten years after Un combat de chaque instant, the idea was to recount the last ten years of his life. Those in which he fought to obtain a permanent job, where he built a wonderful family by taking care of his children on a daily basis despite his disabilities – he’s a real father hen. We also talked about the times when he unfortunately lost his sight, and when he had to cope with numerous failures in judo (7th at the Rio Paralympics in 2016). In fact, we talked more about the man than the judoka. It’s a rich life lesson for everyone – judoka or not, for that matter.
You also write about cycling. And you even write… on a bike. Where did this concept of side-by-side interviews come from?
I didn’t invent it. It’s been done before and will continue to be done. In search of original formats in terms of both content and form, I was thinking about new articles for the start of the 2021 school year. I came up with the idea of doing bike interviews with regional cyclists. The concept? Take them on a bike ride and transcribe what they had to say in the newspaper. I was amazed by the results: most of them confided in us in a way they’d never done before. The first, for example, David Menut, is a shy boy who we’ve been following since he first took to the road some fifteen years ago. In two hours, he opened up more than in dozens of formal interviews conducted with a dictaphone or notepad. This format has broken down barriers.
How do you proceed?
There are no closed questions or dictaphone. I take the general ideas from the top of my head, based on the principle of open discussion. In 2022, we continued the column in the form of « I ran with… », again with regional athletes. Finally, in 2023, to coincide with the Tour de France’s passage through the Centre France group’s circulation area, we ran this column in all the group’s newspapers, on two pages, with well-known professional cyclists, whether active like Guillaume Martin, Rémi Cavagna or Warren Barguil, or retired riders like Pierre Rolland, Thomas Voeckler or Sylvain Chavanel.
I imagine you have your share of anecdotes to tell…
I almost knocked over an international woman cyclist: I thought I had to turn right, but we were staying on the same road. We touched, but somehow nobody fell. Then there was the time when an athlete made me climb so much while running that I ended up on foot, with a stitch in my side. Or Thomas Voeckler’s « offs », even though we didn’t know each other… This column remains a great memory, because it allowed me to discover my interlocutors in a different way. The rule was simple: we went to their homes, to their training routes. In that context, in safety and confidence, many of them gave information they wouldn’t have divulged in more formal interviews.
You see me coming: have you tried to transpose these concepts to your interviews with judokas?
Indeed, I wanted to do a « I fought with… » interview. I did it with Fanny Posvite, but with four big throws in two minutes we didn’t have time to talk [Laughs]. And on a more serious and official note, I wanted to transpose this concept with judokas from the French women’s Olympic team. But due to timing and availability, that’s not likely to happen…
You mention the freedom that successive editors have given you to develop your subjects. What do you think made it possible for you to get this leeway?
Above all, there were great stories to tell and international results to highlight. As we’ve already mentioned, there’s also the pride of a territory and a newspaper that doesn’t hesitate to enhance highlights that deserve to be on the front page.
You mentioned embedded journalism. Over time, bonds are forged. How do you manage to maintain the right distance from your subjects?
That’s a very good question… I have the image of a thread on which you walk and on which you mustn’t fall, either way. There are, as you point out, links that are forged over the years. They allow for a more fluid relationship and, often, more confidences. But we must never forget that our role is to provide raw, factual information. We’re there for the titles and medals, but we’re also there for the missed competitions. We’re not supporters, and we also have to analyze when things don’t work out. In my opinion, being fair is the key to maintaining the relationship between journalists and athletes. To finish on this topic, I said we should write about the good times and the bad times. On a personal level, I also try to maintain the link with certain people when they’re no longer competing: retirement, injury, a complicated period, etc. I’m not afraid to write about the good times and the bad.
To extend what you said about the Parisian tropism of French judo. What role can and is the local press playing to rebalance this?
This is just me, but I have the impression that the national press – I’m thinking mainly of L’Equipe – doesn’t talk enough about judo in general. There are few specialized magazines apart from L’Esprit du judo, and I found myself at a loss when I wanted to take an interest in this discipline over a decade ago. That’s a first observation. On the basis of this analysis, it can be argued that the national press doesn’t pay enough attention to the local scene. In fact, there’s a tendency to talk about headliners like Teddy Riner or Clarisse Agbegnegnou rather than others who sometimes have strong local roots. So there’s very little coverage of provincial judo. Maybe it doesn’t deserve it? Maybe it’s too far away? Far be it from me to pit the national press against the local press, or Paris against the provinces. But yes, you could say that we’re trying to rebalance this by doing a lot on our local competitors, like Fanny Posvite back home. Without this, unfortunately, these champions don’t exist, or exist very little, in the national press. And that’s a shame.
Pour sa médaille d’argent en Allemagne, Cyril Jonard a reçu un bidon et un sac de sport
Si, par le passé, la disparité des dotations entre femmes et hommes a choqué certains, celle entre les valides et les athlètes handisport ne semblent déranger personne… ⤵️ https://t.co/bk2fBxKVc9
— Kevin Cao (@kevincao87) March 7, 2024
You mentioned the importance of Cyril Jonard in your career. All false modesty aside, how important have you been to the career of a Cyril or a Fanny, for example? Have any of your papers, short of being game changers, been able to help move the lines, in one way or another?
I like your questions. I don’t know if a journalist should say this, but I would have liked the interviews with Fanny Posvite talking about her #2 status and her lack of consideration from the French Judo Federation to have moved the lines. They got people talking, they were read, they were shared, but in the end, they didn’t change anything for her.
Does this mean that Le Populaire du Centre is not very audible when it takes a stand?
I’m not so sure. Let me tell you an anecdote which is also a counter-example and therefore a small victory. One day, my colleague at France Bleu Limousin was doing a five-part series on Cyril Jonard before the Paralympics. A few months ago, I made a tweet relaying one of his articles and pointing out that, as a para judoka, Cyril earned nothing in competitions and had to make do with derisory means compared to able-bodied athletes. This prompted a local entrepreneur to sponsor him. It’s not much, but on our scale, it’s a small victory. And I was delighted for Cyril, who has often lacked recognition and resources during his career.
At a time when the profession is being turned upside down by the challenges of digital technology and artificial intelligence, what advice would you give to a young 19-year-old journalist who, far from Paris and the INSEP, wants to write about sport in general and judo in particular?
I’ve said it many times: it’s passion that guides everything, as well as hard work and desire. I’m sure you’ve heard this a thousand times with champions: willpower takes you a long way. I think the same is true of our profession. I’ve always been driven by a thirst for discovery, progress and sharing. I never thought I’d be writing books about a judoka, or following a team on a trip to Georgia or Russia… I tried to do whatever was necessary to make these wonderful opportunities a reality, and they became so. It’s a bit of a mouthful, but it’s sometimes by not setting any limits that you end up surpassing them… That said, incredible things don’t happen by itself. You have to go out and get them. – Interview by Anthony Diao, Spring 2024. Opening picture : Thomas Jouhannaud/Le Populaire du Centre.
A French version of this interview is available here.
Bonus – Excerpt from page 76 of Une Flamme pour sortir de l’ombre by Cyril Jonard and Kevin Cao (2024)
« We’re born, we live, we die. So goes the cycle of existence. A few months before he was taken suddenly by a heart attack on the beach, my father enjoyed the first days, the first months, of Athena. My daughter is my reason for living. My daily happiness. My ray of sunshine. I was afraid she’d suffer from Usher syndrome, like me. But she hears everything, sees everything. She simply glows. Many people wonder whether I take care of her and how I raise her. Let’s be clear: I’m a daddy hen. There’s no way for me to have a child and not take care of it. So I accompany him in all his activities: to school every day, to sports several times a week, to the city for walks. We’ve built up our own language. She understands me, I understand her. We exchange, we talk, we laugh. Becoming a father is one of the most beautiful things that ever happened to me. The « Dad » I can hear warms my heart. His hugs are priceless fuel. And if I can’t see her face, I can guess her smiles and imagine her as the most beautiful woman in the world.«
More articles in English:
- JudoAKD#001 – Loïc Pietri – Pardon His French
- JudoAKD#002 – Emmanuelle Payet – This Island Within Herself
- JudoAKD#003 – Laure-Cathy Valente – Lyon, Third Generation
- JudoAKD#004 – Back to Celje
- JudoAKD#006 – Frédéric Lecanu – Voice on Way
- JudoAKD#008 – Annett Böhm – Life is Lives
- JudoAKD#009 – Abderahmane Diao – Infinity of Destinies
- JudoAKD#010 – Paco Lozano – Eye of the Fighters
- JudoAKD#011 – Hans Van Essen – Mister JudoInside
- JudoAKD#021 – Benjamin Axus – Still Standing
- JudoAKD#022 – Romain Valadier-Picard – The Fire Next Time
- JudoAKD#023 – Andreea Chitu – She Remembers
Also in English:
- JudoAKDReplay#001 – Pawel Nastula – The Leftover (2017)
- JudoAKDReplay#002 – Gévrise Emane – Turn Lead into Bronze (2020)
- JudoAKDReplay#003 – Lukas Krpalek – The Best Years of a Life (2019)
- JudoAKDReplay#004 – How Did Ezio Become Gamba? (2015)
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